Comments on Vanilla Garlic: Racial Slurs and Citrus

This was all very interesting to me, but I don'...

2012-01-19T17:25:17.423-08:00

This was all very interesting to me, but I don't have any good answers. I was raised here in a Southern backwater where Brazil nuts are called offensive names, and I have never seen one of those limes. When they finally make their way here, I'll know the whole story. In fact, I got to this page by Googling for 'kaffir lime' after seeing it on a vegetarian cooking blog. For those suffering discrimination, I'm sure the world does not move fast enough, but I wonder if there has been any time before now that ideas have spread so rapidly as they do now thanks to electricity and all the inventions following behind that. When I began dating my Significant Something-or-Other, I made a light remark about fags or faggots. (Don't forget that word as meaning firewood, either.) I meant a gay guy, and my shocked eight-years-younger SO told me I couldn't say that. What? That's what my gay friends used to say and what I said back then. OK, I'm getting old. I've been rebuked and now I don't say 'fag' any more. Maybe we'll catch up with more civilized areas and I'll see some of those limes we're discussing. I really mean no harm to anyone ever, so please don't take my light tone amiss.

To try and change the meaning of the word or words...

2010-02-23T10:47:02.213-08:00

To try and change the meaning of the word or words would be a lie as are so many of the things the Christian's changed - take for example the Holidays. Christ was not born in Decmeber and the rituals we cling to are for the most part pagan in origin.

The core of the issue needs to be addressed and the thought of or attempt to change the meaning of a word so that it is no longer offensive is avoiding the issue. It is not words that need to change but people. This is the 21st century and we are supposed to be evolved with broader more open minds than our ignorant ancestors. These racist ingrates need to come to terms with how truely stupid and pig-headed their ideals are and let them go. God put us here together - all equal - hands down - I don't care how rich you are or what color you are, you are no better than the homeless person you pass on the street and anyone who thinks they are needs to re-examine their priorities!

Wow, very thought provoking post. As a haole (or ...

2009-11-29T22:35:13.974-08:00

Wow, very thought provoking post. As a haole (or white person) who lived most of my life in Hawaii, I have a unique perspective on being a minority and the brunt of racial slurs. Because of this I'm incredibly sensitive to the issue of racism, and feel sick inside when I hear the n-word. Not because I fear it, but because I know that for some people it's a source of huge pain that I would never want anyone to feel.

Have loved exploring your blog today and added you to my reader!

i couldn't do my thoughts on the issue justice...

2009-11-16T06:23:44.020-08:00

i couldn't do my thoughts on the issue justice here but wanted to thank you for a thoughtful entry.

I actually bought my first Makrud lime last weeken...

2009-11-14T21:18:13.242-08:00

I actually bought my first Makrud lime last weekend at Central Market in Austin, Texas. You will be happy to know they were labeled as such. As I was checking out, the cashier asked me what I was planning to do with my kaffir lime. Since I had no idea that it is essentially worthless for cooking, I said, "I'm not really sure yet." In the mean time, I will use my Makrud lime for cleaning, and I will be sure to correct the cashier next time in reference to the term. Good for you for writing this post! Way to make food fun and interesting and relevant!

Garret, What a wonderful post! I can only imagine ...

2009-11-14T09:04:36.358-08:00

Garret,
What a wonderful post! I can only imagine how difficult this was to write trying not to offend but to educate. Incredibly well done. You have made a reader out of me. I will find you on Twitter!

Things get renamed all the time. What was once cal...

2009-11-12T20:32:49.529-08:00

Things get renamed all the time. What was once called rapeseed oil is now canola oil. Dolphin fish is now known as mahi mahi. Both changes were made to make the name of the item more palatable. I think it's time for the lime to get a new name. If the Food Network started calling the lime by its less offensive name, I bet others would follow suit.

I must be ignorant. I had no idea about these slan...

2009-11-12T16:29:18.991-08:00

I must be ignorant. I had no idea about these slang terms. I just assume the "K" lime was a type completely unaware of the real meaning. Thank you so must for this post. I have been enlightened and I agree it is time to rename things and forgo the racial slangs.

Interesting discussion! As a perennial, serial adv...

2009-11-12T16:06:34.556-08:00

Interesting discussion! As a perennial, serial advocate of long-shot causes from Linux to Libertarianism, I know well the conundrum you face in trying to decide how to approach this issue. Unless you're prepared to make it your personal crusade, perhaps it's best for your sanity to simply quietly take the right path yourself, and gently correct others when they question you? Your post offered a great perspective, and it's the aggregate of many small decisions and conversations (like this one) from equally-as-many individuals that often drives much larger paradigm shifts.

I agree with ashleystravel. When it comes to langu...

2009-11-12T15:21:29.648-08:00

I agree with ashleystravel. When it comes to language, context and culture are important. Calling brazil nuts “n-word toes” is offensive in the United States because the n-word is a historically derogatory term. This is different from kaffir. This term lacks any historical importance in the United States. Most people do not know the word at all, and if they do, they likely associate it with a type of lime.

A very important parallel is the word “fag”. A derogatory term used in the US used to refer to homosexuals. But in England a fag is a cigarette, always has been. Nobody seems to be offended by that. I have never heard of any campaigns, British or American, to stop the use of fag to refer to cigarettes, and the two countries share the same language and have many cultural similarities.

The inoffensiveness and meaningless of the word is emphasized by the need to provide a 10 paragraph explanation of why the word is offensive. If you need 10 paragraphs to tell the average reader and me why a word is offensive, then it is not offensive.

We have to resist the easy temptation to tell people to not use a word because it offends somebody, somewhere. We must look at the context and cultural history to guide our use of language.

who knew? as for brazil nuts...that colloquial na...

2009-11-12T12:35:01.119-08:00

who knew? as for brazil nuts...that colloquial name is what we still call them in my family.

Really enlightening post I had no idea of the hist...

2009-11-12T12:30:23.711-08:00

Really enlightening post I had no idea of the history or connotations of "kaffir" as a derogatory term. The limes are not the only word in this situation either. Here in the UK there is a traditional offal based meatball called a "faggot" and obviously the word has developed in more recent years into a derogatory term. In this case im not sure it has any actual connection though as "faggot" wasnt original used as a homophobic insult.

Just wanted you to know that I found this post ver...

2008-11-30T12:21:00.000-08:00

Just wanted you to know that I found this post very informative. I never realized that that was a colloquilisim for Brazil nuts. Nor did I know about Kaffir being a slur. I am studying Asian Studies as my major, and now I have something new to look into in my race and culture class. More about Kaffir to come! Thank you!
ps. I always love your site, you will never piss me off!!

Love this post! I learned something, and that's t...

2008-11-25T20:51:00.000-08:00

Love this post! I learned something, and that's the best part!

Personally, I try to take words like my cat or my horse takes them... they might not understand the WORDS but they understand my MEANING if I'm irritated or loving. They know what I MEAN.

However, to some people, the word, no matter how innocently (or well-meaningly)spoken is hurtful. I have a hard time reconciling someone who cannot see my intent, for the words I have used have blinded them to my heart.

But, if I use such a word, and they are blinded or hurt, then I have indeed injured our communication, our trust, our ability to relate as humans.

Although I wish people could read my HEART in the words I say, I have to make room for those who cannot. For the goal is true communication, and anything that stands in the way of that goal (not matter how trivial or great) is my enemy.

Thanks again!
Christine

Funny that I should run across your entry literall...

2008-11-13T17:48:00.000-08:00

Funny that I should run across your entry literally 4 days after I heard, for the first time in my life, someone talk about how Brazil Nuts used to be called n-- toes. (Apparently his mother called them that). I was shocked enough that he, as a white man, would say the word out loud, which goes to show the taboo nature of it in my family. As an anthropologist I am intrigued by the meaning of words and how meaning changes depending on the context and on who is saying the word, and I must admit that even though I knew the word kaffir was derogotory, I never thought about it when reading the words "kaffir lime". But it is something I will keep in mind from now on. I appreciate you boldly discussing this touchy topic-thanks for a great, thoughtful, post.

Thanks for the information, Garrett. I had no ide...

2008-11-12T15:26:00.000-08:00

Thanks for the information, Garrett. I had no idea that the k-word was a derogatory term. As to the n-toes, my uncle, unfortunately, still calls them that, and he has less than kind feelings towards African Americans. How ironic is is then that he loves the Brazil nuts!
I don't have any suggestions for renaming this fruit, but thanks again for such a thought-provoking, educational entry.

No suggestions on what to call them, but thank you...

2008-11-11T23:22:00.000-08:00

No suggestions on what to call them, but thank you for the educational post.

A similar case in the Netherlands, yes 'us of the ...

2008-11-11T07:21:00.000-08:00

A similar case in the Netherlands, yes 'us of the bad colonial past and slave trade': we have a pastry that used to be called: negerzoenen: n-word-kisses: chocolate filled with cream. It is now sold under a different name - I never ate them, so I don't know it - but it was a major item a couple of years ago on the 20.00hrs National News. The black newsreporter gave us viewers the 'last Negerzoen' SMACK in front of the camera. She thought it a useless change.
The same goes for Moorkoppen (N-wordheads) changed to Bossche Bollen (Puffpastry filled with cream and coated with chocolate).
And the discussion of the Black Peter as companion to Santa Claus is still a recurrent debate, with the ad hoc result that Black Peters are now intelligent, well speaking human beings, instead of dumb, pidgin speaking servants.
We've still got a long way to go... racist, sexist words still being thought 'normal' rather than the exception.

Thanks for the education. Perhaps if we all shared...

2008-11-11T06:29:00.000-08:00

Thanks for the education. Perhaps if we all shared your post, like a giant chain letter, we could help with this movement for change. I'll be sure to link.

Thanks for sharing that information! I had no ide...

2008-11-10T23:02:00.000-08:00

Thanks for sharing that information! I had no idea prior to reading this post about either nickname.

Sadly, I don't there there are enough people who would recognize the actual meaning or insinuations of the word kaffir for it to make any difference. Unlike the nickname for Brazil nuts, which is rather blatantly offensive.

This leads me to think how heavily one should consider intent within diction. Should the person who means exactly what they say, in some way be held more accountable? I personally think so, which is why I will try to remember use the name Makrud Limes from now on. Thanks again - great post!

I always feel so much more informed when I read th...

2008-11-10T19:17:00.000-08:00

I always feel so much more informed when I read things like this and the better for it. From now on I will call them by there correct name. Thank you Garret.

I had no idea! I'm with Ashleystravel, I always th...

2008-11-10T16:26:00.000-08:00

I had no idea! I'm with Ashleystravel, I always thought that it was just the name of the plant...

Ooh - thank you for this! That's terrible! I feel ...

2008-11-10T11:36:00.000-08:00

Ooh - thank you for this! That's terrible! I feel so ignorant and I'm really glad you've enlightened me on this.

I did not connect the word kaffir with kaffir lime...

2008-11-10T11:33:00.000-08:00

I did not connect the word kaffir with kaffir lime. Interesting to know the background of the word. I think it is possible to change the name. They did it with Chinese gooseberries to Kiwifruit.

Wow, been a long time since I heard "nigger toes!"...

2008-11-10T09:44:00.000-08:00

Wow, been a long time since I heard "nigger toes!" My 73-year-old mum still uses the term occasionally, in much the same way y'all use "kaffir lime;" she's not racist, but that what everyone called them when she grew up.

There are other, similar terms: To "jew someone down" on the price of something, or to get "gypped," which is a reference to shady dealings by Gypsies.

As for Kaffir limes, as a student of African history I know full well what that word means. I honestly have never used them, in part because of their name. Silly, I know, because the fruit itself isn't racist...

But still. Would I have reached for them if their name wasn't so offensive? Dunno.